Adult Maturity and Mutual Friendship

Recently, Betsy Stalcup (BS) interviewed community member Jeannie Herbert (JH) about adult maturity and a very special friendship Jeannie shares with her friend of 40 years, Kathy.

BS: How did you meet your friend Kathy?

JH: My friend, Kathy and I met 40 years ago. Jerry and I came to Washington DC for a month as our husbands were going to work together for a college ‘J term’. Housing was pre-arranged, so that we actually lived in the same row house together on Capitol Hill. Our oldest child was eight months old and he slept in a cabinet drawer to save space. The two couples hit it off.

One year later, we came permanently to DC and moved into that same row house on Capitol Hill, after they had moved out. And the rest is history! We have been friends now for 40 years. We’ve had many adventures together. One of earliest was going to a DC department store and having our ‘colors’ done together. Afterwards we diagnosed everyone we could see.

When we moved here permanently in 1981, we had two little children. The Gathros did not have any children at the time. Kathy was very kind to either come over often or talk to me on the phone to provide real friendship in those days when I was experiencing the loneliness of being with little ones.

At the time, I was teaching childbirth classes and attending home births with midwives. And here were our dear friends who were not able to have a child. They struggled with infertility, and ended up adopting two children, who unbeknownst to them both had special needs.

In the beginning, when I was so interested in childbirth and they couldn’t have children, I felt like I could not talk about this with Kathy. But actually, it did draw us closer together. She could hear the difficulties of what I was doing and see the actual process of my interest in teaching childbirth classes, and I could imagine her pain. And we could be friends, even though our situations were different from the outside. They have ushered us into the world of ‘special needs.’ They have been using their gifts to create community wherever they have gone, and we have been on the sidelines cheering as they have navigated children with special needs.

BS: That is really beautiful. You both were showing signs of adult maturity even back then. It wasn’t just all about you, who had kids, and you needed your friend to come over and help. It wasn’t all about you, Jeannie; you were actually able to recognize that she was struggling too.

JH: Eventually I was able to see that, yes. We were both new to Washington at the time, and we had projects we worked on together. The church they were both interested in was just beginning. Both couples were very involved in the starting of Washington Community Fellowship Church. And the four of us also helped to start Rivendell School. There was a lot of energy and excitement around these projects in our covenant group, which we were in together with some other couples for fourteen years. Being in this covenant group together did a lot to cement our friendship and share on many different topics.

As our kids got older, we grew apart for a time. When Kathy’s ten-year-old daughter received a cancer diagnosis and needed to go for radiation treatments, she asked five friends to come alongside her during this time. I was one of the five, and each Tuesday I took her daughter to the treatments at GW Hospital.
I think we grew closer as our children grew, and then in the last ten years we have grown closer as couples. Of course, it helps that the men are friends also. Six years ago, the Gathro’s retired to Florida, and that was a hard time for me. I truly felt lost when my friend moved. I had learned a little bit about attachment pain, and realized that this was what I was experiencing.

BS: So how many times have you been to visit them in Florida?

JH: Oh my goodness, they actually bought the condo five years before they moved permanently, and we visited multiple times. And once they even let us use it over Christmas when they weren’t even there. We feel very comfortable visiting them, because we have been there several times. The first year they moved down permanently, they came back to Washington 4 or 5 times and stayed with us.

A few years back, Kathy said something that we consider our highest compliment to each other: she said I am her ‘deepest and shallowest friend.’ This is because we can talk about anything together, the dresses at the Academy Awards, and in the next moment we can share our Immanuel Journaling together and what God is doing in our lives. It is a very safe friendship.

BS: So you don’t feel like in any way that you have to perform for her? Or do you ever think, you might be boring her, or that she is judging you for being trivial? You can basically say whatever, and it is OK?

JH: That is correct. It is a beautiful friendship. On my 60th birthday, we were going to go out for an evening with about eight people. She totally surprised me by ordering a limousine that was waiting outside our house. Someone else had prepared a dinner, and my daughter-in-law had everyone dress in red and black. We had a fun night out on the town, driving around in that limousine.

Kathy helps my world grow larger. She is a big picture thinker. She likes new ideas, and she thinks outside the box. And I like to know the perimeters of the box, and I can get things done. I can take some of her ideas and help implement them. Or we can work together on something, because she thinks bigger and I am very practical.

BS: I am so impressed that you founded Rivendell, it is so highly regarded in the DC Metro area. In fact, many have tried to copy it.

JH: We named it Rivendell after the last homely home and safe place in the The Lord of the Rings before people/ students are launched.

BS: Oh yes, in the movie, I think everyone was able to go to Rivendell and rest and recover there. Did your children attend there?

JH: Yes, our oldest was in fourth grade when the school started. All of our kids went through eighth grade after that. I ended up working there. Kathy cared deeply about Christ centered education, having an education background. Even though the school we started together would not be able to take her own (disabled) son. How amazing that she was willing to invest, even though it would not work for her children.

BS: Would you say that your friendship evolved over time?

JH: Most definitely. And now it seems we are at our most joyous season. That is pretty fun, and encouraging, that as we get older there is still a lot of good life ahead. This past year, because of Zoom, Kathy was in the Wednesday morning class I’ve been leading. So we connected on more serious topics together. And we visited them in Florida over Memorial Day to celebrate their new house.

BS: Can you tell me about a recent time where you had fun together?

JH: Yes, in July we were in Montana together with a group of nine families. These were former students of our husbands, who have remained friends over the 30+ years, and invited their professors to join them. The last free day Kathy and I decided to go on a river float down the Madison River. The two of us got in our inner tubes and had a short but memorable ride. We got stuck several times on the rocks because it was so shallow. We laughed together, and enjoyed being together despite our difficulties with exiting the innertubes at the right place. A young handsome man in a fishing boat saw our peril and asked if we needed help. He was able to bring his boat across the river and rescue us. We couldn’t stop laughing at how silly we must have looked. It was truly a Lucy and Ethel moment.